Bullets fly


When cops shoot their guns, sometimes they kill or injure bad guys. Sometimes it turns out that the person who was shot didn't do anything wrong. And sometimes the majority of the carnage involves utterly innocent bystanters.

That's a side of police shootings that doesn't get talked about as much. But it's real -- and it's a matter of concern when cops are firing off rounds in a crowded urban area, in particular when they're near a school. Which is what happened in Noe Valley Aug. 27. According to my friends at the Ex:

A female officer caught up to the suspect as he tried to climb over a fence on Valley Street. He reportedly moved quickly toward the officer with his hands in the middle of his torso, prompting the officer to fire a single shot, which did not strike the suspect, police Chief Greg Suhr said.

So if the bullet didn't hit the suspect, where did it go?

It went flying around Noe Valley. In the middle of the day. Near an elementary school. Lucky it didn't hit anybody. Because officers are trained to fire at someone who they perceive as a lethal threat -- but that training doesn't include looking around behind the perp to see where the rounds will go if they miss.








Posted by marcos on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 10:09 am

Of course, my first preference is for all cops who discharge weapons to reliably hit their targets -- or at least *know* that stray bullets will not go flying around into schools, etc. -- but on balance, I'd rather have some infinitessimal chance of getting hit by such a bullet rather than far more significant prospect of extrajudicial punishment administered at the hands of a high voltage cop.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 10:58 am

Uh, actually Tim, that training DOES include looking around behind the perp to see where the rounds will go if they miss.

Number of people unlawfully shot and killed by criminals in the 415 the past year:
I don't know, 50?

Number of bystanders shot and killed by the SFPD in the 415 the past year:

Do you think these numbers are close or something?

Do you want TASERs instead? NOPE!

What's your deal, man?

Posted by Jim on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:03 am

And even if she did not, if she feels her life is in danger, and of course it often is, then even a slight delay can mean death.

Oh, and you dodn't even mention that the suspect was caught, which me might not have been if the cop had not acted as she did.

Totally innocent bystanders almost never get shot by cops; it's almost always a bad guy.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:03 am

Last week in New York, while shooting a suspect from short range, two cops shot nine bystanders. Turns out they weren't regular patrol cops, but an anti-terrorist crew who happened to be near the crime scene, the Empire State Building.

Cops act with impunity, are rarely disciplined for their misdeeds, and most disturbingly, apparently can't shoot straight.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:04 am

Why do you hate America, why do you enable the terrorists?

Posted by marcos on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:10 am

crowded street. Obviously the cops had to take him out quickly. If they ahd not fired, many more could have died. The cops had to make a split-second decision to avert carnage and obviously that does not come at zero risk.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:14 am

Nope, the civilian gunman fired two shots at only one person, his former boss. The cops fired many times that wildly throughout the crowd and injured many more than would have otherwise been injured.

Posted by marcos on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:44 am

only intended to shoot one person, even if that is true?

The cops see a guy in a crowded street shooting someone. Are they supposed to wait to see if he shoots a few more before they take him out?

The fog of war makes your kind of post facto rationalizations moot.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 2:23 pm

It was approx 6AM. A gang of five thugs was involved in snatching cell phones, at gunpoint. Police eventually tracked them down using the phone's own GPS signal and recovered 'replica handguns'.

Of course, if you rely on Tim Redmond for your information all you get is that one police officer missed a shot at a suspect that she had reason to believe was armed. And of course Tim portrays the scene as the Office firing indifferently without bothering to look for school children behind the perp in a crowded urban area. At 6AM.

Mind you, no basis of course, but this is the SFBG. We make up whatever we want here, because nobody cares anyway.

Those of you who like to use cell phones in this city and who may have seen the video of a woman getting beat up on Russian her phone can identify with this armed street robbery problem and the odds just tipped a bit back in our favor because of the police.

Wow. Luckily nobody listens to Tim Redmond. Can you imagine how much worse of a cesspool this city would be if anyone did?

Posted by Troll on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:30 am

Troll I am so glad someone else is interested in facts like I am. Tim is such a disservice to journalism I can't understand why he is employed.

Posted by JCB on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:46 am

Troll, check the story again. Original crime occured at 200 Minerva at around 6am.

Police were able to track phone by GPS to 28th & Church. *Then* a chase ensued and the suspect was shot at.

But you, in order to falsely seem to make a point, claim that the GPS tracking and travelling across town took no time at all. Of course.

That's quite beside the point that by looking only at the clause concerning this shooting place near a school, you seek to evade addressing the accuracy of Tim's central point: that the shot went wild in a crowded city.

Dumbass. Liar.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 12:34 pm

You know what, moron....normally I try to ignore you because I fell sorry for you but in this case...show me where there is any validity to "the shot went wild in a crowded city" or shut up.

I don't care how troubled you are. Not my problem. And being mentally challenged doesn't give you any right to also be a mind blowing shmuck. As a matter of fact, most developmentally challenged people have extremely pleasant dispositions. In that one regard you seem to be exceptional.

Posted by Troll on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 1:08 pm

Sure Troll, have it your way.

Just don't expect anybody to believe your pronouncements when they are so often baseless and wrong... and this may come as a surprise to you, but the level of agitation you displayed in their defense is of no import.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 1:23 pm

I shouldn't have been that harsh with you just because you thought that doing a GPS search takes hours instead of minutes. I should have been more accepting of your 'challenges'. That was wrong of me.

Here...maybe this article will help. It talks about how the school was locked down (hmmm...maybe the Police aren't totally indifferent to public safety) but that the lock down was LIFTED before 9AM. And I'm sure that they didn't lift it minutes after the shooting.


So do you think you might be able to understand how some of us might feel that Tim wasn't being truthful when he said 'middle of the day'?

If you can't understand that, I'm sorry, but I tried my best. Maybe one of your professional counselors or minders can do a better job of explaining these difficult concepts to you.

Posted by Troll on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 1:45 pm

D'ya know? If you'd simple stop trying so hard to score points, you'd find yourself looking quite a bit smarter.

As a matter of fact, the San Jose Mercury News story you *cite* as a defense of your claims provides several bits of information you were seemingly unable (or unwilling?) to process. Read it again.

Posted by lillipublicans on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 2:13 pm

Dear Tim Redmond,

Did you click "post" before you were done writing and editing this article? Just say yes because it is a completely ridiculous article with no facts and it's only purpose if there is one was to take a stab at the local police. You are a complete embarrassment to journalism and to the city of San Francisco.
What is a bystanter? Also what is the EX? Also where did you do your research on what police officers are taught when firing a gun? What exactly was your intent with regards to this article. You have not entertained, informed or educated anyone. The ignorant liberals will only believe what you wrote and think cops have no clue what they are doing. You left us with no facts and no links to the event in Noe Valley that you referred to. Are you taking lessons from Henry Lee because you both suck about the same amount.

Hit delete on this article and try again but after you get an education on journalism and the subject of which you are writing.

Posted by JCB on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:44 am

homeless people are better than homeowners, the unemployed are better than the employed, and poor people are so much more desirable than successful winners.

What a terribly sad perspective to have. I only hope he manages to avoid passing on such negativism to his children.

Posted by Guest on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:50 am

Tim's sympathies lie with the people committing the crime, not the victims of the crime or those trying to prevent it. It's why liberalism has so much in common with genuine mental illness. Tim lives in a world where things could have happened, or might have happened, and he confuses these apparitions with things that actually happened, to a point where he really can't tell the difference, if one judges by the insinuations, half-truths, and broadsides that constitute his "journalism."

Posted by Chromefields on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:51 am

>"It went flying around Noe Valley. In the middle of the day."

Yeah. The story that Tim links to clearly says that the episode occurred at 6AM, not the 'middle of the day'. Or maybe it was a 'magic bullet' that ricocheted around a school yard for 6 hours.

If you expect anything other than false and misleading statements from Tim Redmond columns then you are just getting what you deserve.

Posted by Troll on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 11:56 am

citing the article that shows you're lying. You know, just a helpful hint.

Around 6AM isn't exactly "in the middle of the day".

Posted by Guest on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 12:05 pm

You just don't get it. Tim is a a great artiste, painting a vivid image of a San Francisco Police Officer firing wildly into a school yard at mid day without any regard for the children standing behind the perpetrator. It is a grand vision that supports our Progressive cause.

Yet all we get back is sniping that it isn't "true". It is BETTER than "true', you soulless heathens. I guess that expecting a real appreciation of Tim's great work will occur when some of you fly.

Posted by Steroidal Progressive on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 12:35 pm

While I can see and understand the outrage over the injured in NYC who were shot by police this isn't even remotely close to the same situation. As others have ably pointed out there are pretty big differences between what Tim is claiming and what actually went down yesterday morning.

Tim = FAIL.

Posted by Troll II on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 2:29 pm

An officer should only fire if they have carefully looked behind the threat, ensured that no one is in the area. Did Tim bother to go out to the actual scene of the shooting and see what the area was behind the suspect- perhaps it was a concrete wall and the office took that into account, you just don't know because as usual- Tim hits post without doing actual research- instead he relies on the reporting of others .

Posted by D.native on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 3:19 pm

He didn't rely on the reporting of others in this instance...he just made up whatever he felt like writing. I looked at the reporting and there is nothing about the police officer endangering any bystanders when she fired. There is one interview on the CBS site where a neighbor making breakfast hears the officer yell 'Stop...Stop...Stop or I'll shoot' and then the gunshot. Then other officers quickly arrived and made sure that everyone stayed off the street.

The part about a police officer firing wildly and endangering bystanders in the middle of the day is just a total fabrication by Tim. No reporting basis of any type is involved.

Posted by Troll on Aug. 28, 2012 @ 3:54 pm